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nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

shantanu wrote:

NeXT STEP was made by NeXT and not apple. They merged with apple only in 1997, much after the OS.

Well, first things first. I never said that NeXTSTEP was made by Apple. It was made by NeXT definitely while Steve Jobs was heading NeXT after he had been ousted from Apple Corp. When he rejoined Apple as CEO, he made the decision that Mac OS X will be based on NeXTSTEP. That does not change the fact that NeXTSTEP was the innovative product that was improved upon by Apple and made into a saleable product.

I will reply to your other comments in my next post.

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

shantanu wrote:

But am not taking anything away from the iPod, cuz despite all this (and that creative has a lower price than ipod and also provides fm player and recording ability, which otherwise require pricy upgrades for the ipod),

Something that I think is one of the many reasons all the so-called "iPod Killers" have failed miserably to do exactly that. Too much feature overload whereas Apple does the one thing it is supposed to do the best. Of course, that is my opinion but the numbers seem to agree with me.

shantanu wrote:

The gratest innovation that Microsoft made was "Simplification". It simplified things down to a level where anyone could pick up a computer and play with it.
I don't think anyone in the world can deny them this and everyone wud agree that this was their backbone upon which Bill gates started building his empire.

You have got to be kidding me !! How is that their innovation? Apple made the first personal computer and made the first GUI-based operating system. So what does simplification exactly mean in this case?

shantanu wrote:

About the other "relatively" smaller innovations, take XBOX:
1. First Hard disk based console that really performed (another one was there i think by a small company back in 1994 but it had a HD just for the sake of it and so it died out in less than a yr)
2. XBOX Live is XBOX's itunes.
3. high definition video
4. True Dolby Digital 5.1 Sound in gameplay (+ 64 audio channels and 256 stereo voices and included optical communicator, that truly revolutionized online gaming, typing was a passe)
5. Also enabled many users connecting through a LAN.

I will grant you that XBOX is a pretty good product and something that I overlooked in my post.

shantanu wrote:

RFID

RFID? Microsoft? Please elaborate. I don't know anything about this.

shantanu wrote:

And yes, how can gamers forget DirectX

Nothing innovative about that ... OpenGL had been around for years until Microsoft decided to release DirectX. And until version 8, DirectX was what most would call a "clumsy API". Of course, now each has its pros and cons - Direct3D vs OpenGL

shantanu wrote:

This isn't a microsoft vs apple (or windows v/s tiger) debate.

Yes, it isn't. I only made those points to re-iterate the fact that Microsoft does not lead because of technical innovation but because of its business practices, which you seem to partially agree with.

Again, the point was that Microsoft is first and foremost identified with Windows. It dominates in the Desktop OS market share, despite a clear lack of innovation (hell, I will settle for downright competence, let alone innovation) - because they do know how to "embrace, extend and extinguish"

Anyway, I think that you and I agree that Microsoft is technically inferior to most of what's out there but still dominates. You think it's beacuse of their diversification, I say it's more than that.

Let's just agree to (partially) disagree.

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

shantanu wrote:

Sorry man, u got the wrong player.. Nomad jukebox "zen" was, i think, the 4rth product in the line. The first one was nomad jukebox (no zen) 6GB which came out in 2000. I know for sure cuz my bro got one at that time.(Maybe there was another one before this but not sure) i dont have the time right now to search for it but ull find it easily am sure.

I found it - www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2000/nomadreview.html. You were right. I apologize about jumping the gun on that one.

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

@nitin: but even then the innovations that had been made by NeXT STEP more than a decade earlier wud not be apple's achievements, right? The innovations wud have been in what ways it was improved. So, i just wanted to say that listing those older achievements into apple's corner was not correct. Only the improvements that were made wud have been more appropriate (which i'm sure wud have been great in themselves)..

shantanu · 11 Feb 2005

Let's just agree to (partially) disagree.

I guess thats the best option left with us now Big Grin

Edit: Just as a sidenote once again, abt that extinguishing part, every big corporation does that, including apple. The bigger u are the more ull extinguish to become even bigger (not that i support it) and more visible ur extinguishing will be. 2 examples that jump to my mind right now are regarding ipod.
1. integration of ipod and itunes, apple didnt want ipod to work with any thing other than itunes. Its a separate thing that ppl hacked themselves out of the situation.

2. Apple took a major lead over creative with their first gen iPods by choking the supply of smaller 1.8" hard drives so that creative cudnt get them and they wud be the first to provide the smaller player..

nmadnani · 14 Feb 2005

shantanu wrote:

@nitin: but even then the innovations that had been made by NeXT STEP more than a decade earlier wud not be apple's achievements, right? The innovations wud have been in what ways it was improved. So, i just wanted to say that listing those older achievements into apple's corner was not correct. Only the improvements that were made wud have been more appropriate (which i'm sure wud have been great in themselves)..

Yes, you are right. I don't see them as points in Apple's column. I see them as points in Mac OS X's column. Just wanted to dispute the claim that the fact that it is derived from BSD Unix precludes it being an innovative product.

Moudi · 23 Feb 2005

shantz dude no offences but this is where the business aptitude crosses the engineering attitude ..

after readin all ur technical info i still i m sure u didnt get my idea .. nyways its good u guys know all abt the technical aspects about evolution of ideas ..

Rolling Eyes

tarunjot · 30 Jan 2005

any idea about material science and aerospace branches? the best universities for these fields..

jaskirat · 11 Feb 2005

will post the aerospace soon got it on my pc but im in delhi now

Moudi · 23 Feb 2005

1. California Institute of Technology 4.8
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
3. Stanford University (CA)

aerospace

jaskirat · 11 Feb 2005

here the aero list.. i got mech too if some1 needs it coz sometimes ur research interest is in mech engg in some univs(as in my case)

Rank/School Average assessment
score (5.0=highest)
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8
2. Stanford University (CA) 4.7
3. California Institute of Technology 4.5
4. Georgia Institute of Technology 4.3
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.3
6. Princeton University (NJ) 3.9
Purdue University–West Lafayette (IN) 3.9
University of Texas–Austin 3.9
9. Cornell University (NY) 3.7
University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 3.7
University of Maryland–College Park 3.7
12. Penn State University–University Park 3.5
University of California–Los Angeles 3.5
University of Colorado–Boulder 3.5
15. Texas A&M University–College Station 3.4
University of Southern California (Andrew and Erna Viterbi) 3.4
Virginia Tech 3.4
18. University of California–San Diego (Jacobs) 3.2
University of Minnesota–Twin Cities 3.2
University of Washington 3.2
21. University of Notre Dame (IN) 3.1
22. Iowa State University 2.9
Ohio State University 2.9
University of Florida 2.9
25. Arizona State University 2.8
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) 2.8
University of California–Davis 2.8
28. North Carolina State University 2.7
University of Arizona 2.7
University of Virginia 2.7
31. Illinois Institute of Technology 2.6
University of California–Irvine 2.6
33. Case Western Reserve University (OH) 2.5
Syracuse University (NY) 2.5
University of Cincinnati 2.5
University of Kansas 2.5